I'd have a lot more patience for his spiritual explorations if he'd give any time to the actual Christian sources. Scripture has been interpreted by authoritative people for 2000 years; it's painful to listen to him talk a lot of pseudo-psychological rubbish when it's obvious he's never read the Fathers. Come back when you've worked through John Cassian, St. John Damascene's "Orthodox Faith" and Augustine.
Jonathan has an impressively deep well of patience. As does Robert Barron.
My wife and I find ourselves particularly annoyed by the ridiculous "one Gospel" that JBP insists on using. It reminds me of the annoying family/childrens' readings used in many Catholic Churches in the 1990s. In those we were treated to such gems as, "...and wrapped him in baby clothing."
More or less my take. People are fairly harsh on him and have been over the years. I've still had a soft spot for the guy because this is where he came from.
I haven’t quite disembarked myself yet, but I know exactly what you mean. I think the “new Jordan” has something unique to offer. But I sort of wish we could have both, performing their respective functions.
I agree to a certain extent, we have to think about how the universities treated him and the trauma from that. As well as, his deep depression he suffered and perhaps still suffers from.. He had to have something big to interest him. Unfortunately, it has had some effect on him as it would with any of us. I do agree that I find his over explanation of the pseudo-psychological nature of it, a turn off. Yet even look at Augustine and his journey to the Truth, The Church and Jesus Christ. I mean his wife IS Catholic! Im sure he will come around. Let us pray for him. Neigh, let us pray for his soul!!!
Hey Patrick, despite my first reaction of "what do you mean!," I think I get what you mean. I whirled into the JBP orbit during the summer of 2019 when I was living in Essen, Germany on a client project. As I couldn't get back to the US very often (except my daughter's wedding in late July), I had lots of time on my hands. I'd walk 12-to-15 miles on weekend days listening to his Genesis lectures and to Crime & Punishment, inspired by his recommendation.
My wife and I saw him and Tammy live here at home in Tampa last year. Also great.
And I do still enjoy him. I am a DW+ subscriber and am watching to the Gospels episodes. Frankly, I find him a bit of an overeager naif, with the principal direction and structure coming from Bishop Barron and Jonathan Pageau. The program's group dynamics somewhat compensates for his tendency to meander. He clearly defers to the bishop and his friend, Pageau.
His (to me) silly not-yet on committing to a faith is annoying. I've come to appreciate him differently. No longer a guru, but now a somewhat precocious seeker who's fallen in with the right crowd.
Nick, I really enjoyed your comment. Glad to hear he's getting advice from Bishop Barron too - that's consoling to hear. Thanks so much for taking the time to read my article!
Patrick, perhaps it would help to think of Jordan as Dante/the Pilgrim in the Comedia. He's on a journey and has a lot to learn. And to unlearn.
I think that some of your, and my frustration with him is that in our journeys we've already climbed out of some of the Malebolge that seem to have trapped him. And to be fair, I have no shortage of ruts where I find myself stuck!
I got annoyed with both Peterson and Bishop Barron during one of their first interviews as I felt that Bishop Barron was too deferential and let Peterson get away with too much, particularly his “not-yet” commitment. But now I think I was in error and that Bishop Barron cares about him and is working diligently to evangelize him. Anyway, great article and great comment.
Many of the things that you say about Dr. Peterson ring true with me as well. I am a Canadian so I understand much of where he’s coming from, having also grown up in the province that he hails from originally. I don’t think his affiliation with Daily Wire has helped him much, except giving him a platform to use where his viewpoints are accepted, and he can freely speak (given that he falls within the precepts set by Ben Shapiro). I have found his personal search for God to be interesting , given that many times he misses the mark. His interviews always lead back to the Bible, usually the Torah, where he intellectually tries to pull that apart and often leaves his listeners trying to understand what he’s trying to say or how this is factoring into the interview. I admit, I can’t stand how he keeps pulling from such authorities as Jung and Nietzsche and even Freud and somehow fits them into a conversation about God and the Bible. He has a definite wall set up where he cannot admit that he’s a Christian, And he even dances around admitting that he believes in God, But his constant going back to the Bible makes one pause and question if he even knows what he does believe in. It’s like he is wrestling with his pride, and not God. He is the most stubborn human being I have ever seen.
I don’t mind seeing him move in his spiritual journey, but I wish he would just do it instead of keep chewing on the same fat that he keeps chewing on and won’t spit out or swallow.
As you said, inherently he is a good man who cares deeply about people. I think he has some advisors and is getting lost in their advising. He’s very close to his daughter and I think that her input is maybe not the best for his career. I have seen them both gang up on people on X (I must admit he can’t control himself on that platform and really just needs to leave it) and the perception that one carries from reading his rants and name-calling, like some 12-year-old, degrades his professional credentials. He has some very good friends like Jonathan Pageau, who I believe he actually values as both a friend and a bit of an intellectual. I believe that he should maybe consult more with these types of friends as advisors instead of the likes of those running the Daily Wire and his children.
I don’t know the Dr. Peterson that you know from the past, but having listened to him now for about four years he’s leaving me a little in the dust trying to understand where he’s coming from and his point.
Look closer. He's not on a personal journey. He is still an agent of the UN (or the generating set of principles) and his aim is to bring about the same things the UN does. His primary concern isn't that Western Civilization is coming apart, it's that it's failure will wake up the constituents to how they've been robbed by people like him.
He is a critic of the secular left *from the secular left itself.* He does not agree with you and believes agreeing with you would be the worst kind of moral failure possible. Under the principles that guide his behavior and writing anything up to and including lying is worth preventing that.
I'd have a lot more patience for his spiritual explorations if he'd give any time to the actual Christian sources. Scripture has been interpreted by authoritative people for 2000 years; it's painful to listen to him talk a lot of pseudo-psychological rubbish when it's obvious he's never read the Fathers. Come back when you've worked through John Cassian, St. John Damascene's "Orthodox Faith" and Augustine.
My thoughts exactly. He never cites the Church Fathers when talking about the Scriptures.
At this stage there seems little excuse. Jonathan Pageau must have told him.
Jonathan has an impressively deep well of patience. As does Robert Barron.
My wife and I find ourselves particularly annoyed by the ridiculous "one Gospel" that JBP insists on using. It reminds me of the annoying family/childrens' readings used in many Catholic Churches in the 1990s. In those we were treated to such gems as, "...and wrapped him in baby clothing."
So true.
Also, I knew his association with Daily Wire was going to be a big mistake when he announced it.
That was my thought too. Eventually he'll wise up, similar to Candace Owens and get back on track!
More or less my take. People are fairly harsh on him and have been over the years. I've still had a soft spot for the guy because this is where he came from.
I haven’t quite disembarked myself yet, but I know exactly what you mean. I think the “new Jordan” has something unique to offer. But I sort of wish we could have both, performing their respective functions.
I agree to a certain extent, we have to think about how the universities treated him and the trauma from that. As well as, his deep depression he suffered and perhaps still suffers from.. He had to have something big to interest him. Unfortunately, it has had some effect on him as it would with any of us. I do agree that I find his over explanation of the pseudo-psychological nature of it, a turn off. Yet even look at Augustine and his journey to the Truth, The Church and Jesus Christ. I mean his wife IS Catholic! Im sure he will come around. Let us pray for him. Neigh, let us pray for his soul!!!
-Christ Peace
Took the words right out of my mouth.
I'm still reading, favoriting for title alone. I already know what you are talking about... and me to.
Hey Patrick, despite my first reaction of "what do you mean!," I think I get what you mean. I whirled into the JBP orbit during the summer of 2019 when I was living in Essen, Germany on a client project. As I couldn't get back to the US very often (except my daughter's wedding in late July), I had lots of time on my hands. I'd walk 12-to-15 miles on weekend days listening to his Genesis lectures and to Crime & Punishment, inspired by his recommendation.
My wife and I saw him and Tammy live here at home in Tampa last year. Also great.
And I do still enjoy him. I am a DW+ subscriber and am watching to the Gospels episodes. Frankly, I find him a bit of an overeager naif, with the principal direction and structure coming from Bishop Barron and Jonathan Pageau. The program's group dynamics somewhat compensates for his tendency to meander. He clearly defers to the bishop and his friend, Pageau.
His (to me) silly not-yet on committing to a faith is annoying. I've come to appreciate him differently. No longer a guru, but now a somewhat precocious seeker who's fallen in with the right crowd.
Nick, I really enjoyed your comment. Glad to hear he's getting advice from Bishop Barron too - that's consoling to hear. Thanks so much for taking the time to read my article!
Patrick, perhaps it would help to think of Jordan as Dante/the Pilgrim in the Comedia. He's on a journey and has a lot to learn. And to unlearn.
I think that some of your, and my frustration with him is that in our journeys we've already climbed out of some of the Malebolge that seem to have trapped him. And to be fair, I have no shortage of ruts where I find myself stuck!
I got annoyed with both Peterson and Bishop Barron during one of their first interviews as I felt that Bishop Barron was too deferential and let Peterson get away with too much, particularly his “not-yet” commitment. But now I think I was in error and that Bishop Barron cares about him and is working diligently to evangelize him. Anyway, great article and great comment.
Jordan Peterson is the same Jordan Peterson. Your comments have less to say about Jordan Peterson than about your own predilections.
Thanks for reading and for the feedback.
Many of the things that you say about Dr. Peterson ring true with me as well. I am a Canadian so I understand much of where he’s coming from, having also grown up in the province that he hails from originally. I don’t think his affiliation with Daily Wire has helped him much, except giving him a platform to use where his viewpoints are accepted, and he can freely speak (given that he falls within the precepts set by Ben Shapiro). I have found his personal search for God to be interesting , given that many times he misses the mark. His interviews always lead back to the Bible, usually the Torah, where he intellectually tries to pull that apart and often leaves his listeners trying to understand what he’s trying to say or how this is factoring into the interview. I admit, I can’t stand how he keeps pulling from such authorities as Jung and Nietzsche and even Freud and somehow fits them into a conversation about God and the Bible. He has a definite wall set up where he cannot admit that he’s a Christian, And he even dances around admitting that he believes in God, But his constant going back to the Bible makes one pause and question if he even knows what he does believe in. It’s like he is wrestling with his pride, and not God. He is the most stubborn human being I have ever seen.
I don’t mind seeing him move in his spiritual journey, but I wish he would just do it instead of keep chewing on the same fat that he keeps chewing on and won’t spit out or swallow.
As you said, inherently he is a good man who cares deeply about people. I think he has some advisors and is getting lost in their advising. He’s very close to his daughter and I think that her input is maybe not the best for his career. I have seen them both gang up on people on X (I must admit he can’t control himself on that platform and really just needs to leave it) and the perception that one carries from reading his rants and name-calling, like some 12-year-old, degrades his professional credentials. He has some very good friends like Jonathan Pageau, who I believe he actually values as both a friend and a bit of an intellectual. I believe that he should maybe consult more with these types of friends as advisors instead of the likes of those running the Daily Wire and his children.
I don’t know the Dr. Peterson that you know from the past, but having listened to him now for about four years he’s leaving me a little in the dust trying to understand where he’s coming from and his point.
All things change.
Peterson is best in my opinion, when he talks psychology. I could listen and learn from that endlessly and it’s fascinating.
I like his takes on the bible and christianity
Look closer. He's not on a personal journey. He is still an agent of the UN (or the generating set of principles) and his aim is to bring about the same things the UN does. His primary concern isn't that Western Civilization is coming apart, it's that it's failure will wake up the constituents to how they've been robbed by people like him.
He is a critic of the secular left *from the secular left itself.* He does not agree with you and believes agreeing with you would be the worst kind of moral failure possible. Under the principles that guide his behavior and writing anything up to and including lying is worth preventing that.
I agree and I blame the beef diet. There, I said it.
(I'm joking, I think everything he went through especially with his health and psych issues may have changed him for real but oh well what can we do?)
Now Petersen is a wannabe gatekeeper who medicalizes those on the right who disagree with him. Not good.